tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post905980951720950195..comments2024-03-27T10:36:39.504+05:30Comments on tantu-jaal: Marathi momentsSunil Mukhihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05155823169161030174noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-77264660956373758192009-11-27T14:39:05.539+05:302009-11-27T14:39:05.539+05:30another off the topic comment - inspired by Anant&...another off the topic comment - inspired by Anant's comment - I am learning conversational kannada and having a lot of fun. The most gratifying part is when the shopkeepers indulgently listen to my wrong sentences but nonetheless they smile and feel happy that an outsider is trying to communicate in their language ...Mind Without Fearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01565913012226188600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-58326549459697557632009-11-27T00:00:13.628+05:302009-11-27T00:00:13.628+05:30MWF: Now you'll need to hold on to something s...MWF: Now you'll need to hold on to something stable: I don't even think BGAK has a sonorous voice. Sorry, I honestly had no idea my very opinionated opinions would bother others so much!<br /><br />Anant: Yes you're off-topic, but of course this is one of my pet topics. I want to mention that Maharashtrians are in person equally friendly folk, at least in my city. Yet they have this penchant for supporting "unfriendly" political parties... It's baffling.Sunil Mukhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155823169161030174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-64366417626477406052009-11-26T11:00:17.432+05:302009-11-26T11:00:17.432+05:30Maybe off topic, but I find that in scenic Bangalo...Maybe off topic, but I find that in scenic Bangalore, and especially amongst the members of the IISc community (myself included) there are those who do not know Kannada and have never made an effort to speak a word. But fortunately, the friendly folk here are not making it an issue. But there is a serious issue here: many people who emigrate to regions from where they do not hail, find it very difficult to learn a new language late in life. If ours is to be one country, one must necessarily be tolerant of its plurality, of its language-enabled folks and also of its language-unenable folks as well.Ananthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974808252913561726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-10522356657218673502009-11-26T09:33:28.751+05:302009-11-26T09:33:28.751+05:30I am little dizzy from these comments and not sure...I am little dizzy from these comments and not sure have understood what the fuss is about. But Sunil, did u mean to say - even as a personal opinion - that Bade Ghulam Ali Khan had very little to offer other than a sonorous voice?<br /><br />I am a bit stunned by this. <br /><br />Anyway, there is no denying that Maharashtra has provided a cultural setting to nurture many of these greats and I am just thankful for that. I do hope it continues .... If other parts of the country ( how about Agra Gharana, Patiala Gharana ) <br />produces such greats ( e.g. Salamat Ali Khan whom I had the good fortune to listen to even though he was quite old at that time - not sure what gharana he was from ), my happiness only increases ....<br /><br />I have not seen a good Marathi play since Ghashiram Kotoyal performed by the original group, I need to make an effort to catch another one when it comes around to Bangalore. <br /><br />Thanks for the postMind Without Fearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01565913012226188600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-13865806134065798992009-11-25T21:04:04.621+05:302009-11-25T21:04:04.621+05:30Glad Amir Khan meets with your approval :)Glad Amir Khan meets with your approval :)Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-5177505638169718752009-11-25T17:44:12.853+05:302009-11-25T17:44:12.853+05:30Rahul: It's exactly the list you provided (min...Rahul: It's exactly the list you provided (minus Amir Khan, who is a remarkable exception) which formed the basis for my original statement! Many people on this list have sonorous voices but little else to offer. As I've said, that's merely my opinion.Sunil Mukhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155823169161030174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-26040990739985997862009-11-25T12:21:29.859+05:302009-11-25T12:21:29.859+05:30>>>this is precisely because the border d...>>>this is precisely because the border district of Dharwar is steeped in the Maharashtrian musical sensibility. <br />--<br /><br />Dharawada (closer to local pronounciation) is a Border district? Yes, all of which are Karnataka districts. Should be quite easy to check on a map :-). <br /><br />This is not to deny the influence of Maharashtra culture on northern Karnakaka (likewise AP culture in Hyderabad Karnataka region; perhaps TN culture in southern parts like Bengaluru).anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16125838103842099398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-33619458103793746172009-11-25T12:03:31.194+05:302009-11-25T12:03:31.194+05:30Oh, Hindustani music is much more inclusive than C...Oh, Hindustani music is much more inclusive than Carnatic music, which is dominated by a particular community and is almost exclusively religious in its themes. So I am not surprised that the musicians in question chose to perform Hindustani music. I'm only disputing that they are Maharashtrian. I'm not sure about Bhimsen, but the other two were Kannada-speakers (and writers).<br /><br />As for Hindustani vocalists from the Hindi belt or Bengal -- there are surely far too many to list here. Certainly there were and are many greats from Maharashtra, but your statement that "just about anyone who was anyone in Hindustani music, at least in the second half of the 20th century, either was Maharashtrian or lived in Maharashtra or both" sounds like absurd hyperbole. What about Bade Ghulam Ali Khan, Amir Khan, Jasraj, Omkarnath Thakur, Rajan and Sajan Mishra, and in today's generation, Rashid Khan, Ajoy Chakraborty, and many, many others? (Come to think of it, if you are referring only to Hindustani <i>women</i> vocalists, you may have a point...)Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-65620465595471207152009-11-25T11:15:29.357+05:302009-11-25T11:15:29.357+05:30Rahul: Since when did I stay away from igniting di...Rahul: Since when did I stay away from igniting disputes, be they with borders or friends. <br /><br />You say that the exposure to Carnatic music (of Bhimsen, Mallikarjun, Gangubai) increased the depth of their music. This is true, but seems to prove the opposite of your point. Despite their location, none of these greats actually became a Carnatic musician, and this is precisely because the border district of Dharwar is steeped in the Maharashtrian musical sensibility. That this is a composite sensibility is not in doubt, the compositeness being due to absorption of influences from both North and South. These influences are strongest on the Maharashtra-Karnataka and Maharashtra-Madhya Pradesh borders, in contrast to for example the Maharashtra-Gujarat border.<br /><br />As for the majority of Hindustani greats of the latter 20th century coming from or living in the Hindi belt or Bengal... this is a matter of opinion, and I've stated mine. (BTW in my posting I was referring to vocal rather than instrumental music, even if I didn't say so).Sunil Mukhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155823169161030174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538874342968130652.post-17705337993548668252009-11-25T10:41:46.044+05:302009-11-25T10:41:46.044+05:30But just about anyone who was anyone in Hindustani...<i>But just about anyone who was anyone in Hindustani music, at least in the second half of the 20th century, either was Maharashtrian or lived in Maharashtra or both.</i><br /><br />Um... Bhimsen Joshi, Mallikarjun Mansur, Gangubai Hangal, to name three of the greats from the period you mention, were from Karnataka -- I hope you're not re-igniting the border dispute with your claim. And the latter two lived in Karnataka too. I've heard it suggested that their exposure to Carnatic music increased the "depth" of their music. Gangubai Hangal's mother was a Carnatic musician, and I have a CD of Bhimsen singing Purandaradasa in a Hindustani-tinged style. <br /><br />Many musicians have lived in Mumbai, but as Sachin Tendulkar said recently, Mumbai belongs to all of India.<br /><br />And, of course, many greats (the majority, I'd say) were from the Hindi-speaking states or Bengal, and lived in those places. Hardly surprising, that.Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.com